IDDYBUD'S THOUGHTS--
Anyone with even half a heart and soul wants this war-madness to end.....and never even wanted it to happen to BEGIN with.
It's amazing that many people from the right attempt to lay all these deaths at the left's doorstep (blaming them for protests) when they were the ones calling for the preemptive strike nearly every single day. If this unpopular Hussein-regime falls soon..and let's hope it does, fewer people will have to die..not merely because of Hussein....also because of our OWN responsibility in making the conscious choice to preemptively strike with a coalition of willing.
In any case, hoping for peace through an end to this war is NOT an endorsement of the war as the "right answer". It never has to be equated to that.
I shall always believe, as many others do, that a better way to resolve the threat might very, very well have been possible. The best wisdom of most religious leaders, Nobel Peace laureates, and the majority of international political figures and diplomats around the entire world was that alternatives to a full-scale preemptive military assault on Iraq were not adequately tried, and that this was not a war of last resort.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No one should be very surprised that our vastly superior American fighting force will vanquish this vastly inferior Iraq army. However, one of our nation's absolute worst character-faults is this: actually hoping that our assured success will ERASE all the moral questions!
At the end of the day.. at the end of this bloody war, it won't. Ever.
War is always ugly.. and this current one is showing no sign of being any different.
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Internet muse.
Daring, bold, never sold.
My daily weblog of politics, humor, philosophy...and a constant and nagging reminder of the existence of universal love....
Thursday, March 27, 2003
IS IT APPROPRIATE TO PROTEST WAR DURING WAR?
--A DISCUSSION---- FOUR PEOPLE ON AN INTERNET BOARD--
PERSON 1- "[their protest is] annoying. ... in their persistence in hating Bush and anything associated with him..."
PERSON 2: "The time has come when we can no longer dismiss questions or concerns as merely Bush-Bashing.While that is true for some, it does not reflect the basis for many questions being asked. It is not as much as a minority as you would think. Many are reticent to voice their concerns since they know they will be branded as unpatriotic and not supporting of the troops. No one wants to be perceived as such during this difficult time. Emotion and psychology does play a great role in all of this. That is unavoidable. I have enough faith in my country that hard questions can be asked without destroying it.It is too bad that others feel that our country cannot withstand any scrutiny or discourse at this time."
PERSON 3- "This is NOT the time.
Please refer to following 2 posts:
A. True Patriots: As we all know, the war on Iraq is fully underway. The time for protests against action by the United States is past. The opinions of all Americans, both pro and con, have been heard by our elected representatives and they have made decisions with the full legal authority of the United States government.
This does not imply that there are not or will not be issues that can be debated after this conflict is over. Do weapons of mass destruction exist? How will we handle the problem of the Kurds? How will we rebuild Iraq? How will we set up self-government?
All of these questions will need serious discussion in the times ahead and the voices of Americans should be heard; AT THAT TIME.
However, NOW, voices of protest only give aid and comfort to our enemy. It encourages Iraq to fight on, in hopes that the protests will cause the Government of the United States to turn back from this course of action. This encouragement places our men and women in the service at risk. Every minute that an armed Iraqi fights longer because of the protests of Americans is a minute that they might take the lives of our service people.
For those who have consistently argued that to protest does not mean that someone is not a patriot, I say that you WERE correct but you are NOT now.
------------------
B.- The Necessary War - There are times politics needs to be put aside and this is why a liberal like me supports this war effort. I don't know how much proof of the evil of Saddam Hussein anyone needs but mine is quite satisfied. There seems little doubt he has chemical weapons he plans on using. This is not the sign of a leader who intended on cooperating with the UN. The distruction, or at the very least, the disclosure of all chemical weapons would have been one of the easier things for Hussein to have done with the UN inspectors but he chose otherwise.
There are substantial reports of Iraqis in Southern Iraq rising up against Hussein. That this has yet to happen in Bagdad should come as no surprise though. Hussein has led by terror. He has shown he has no problem with killing his own people so where he is still in power, albeit precarious, should serve as reason why the people of Bagdad haven't risen up against him. They need more, wouldn't you? To his credit Bush has stated that we are closer to the beginning of this war than the end. That's not surprising. Hussein has a substantial military force that needs defeating, not something that happens over night or in 5 days. History is littered with large standing armies being defeated by much smaller ones and the reason is always the same, underestimation and lack of respect for your opponent. I don't believe either of these things is happening now. I want this war to end quickly but properly."
MY OWN REPLY: "I think this is a time when it is most important to respectfully make your case.
We individual Americans are free to express what we morally believe and we each possess the opportunity to do so in a civilly disobedient manner.
The onset of war with Iraq did not demonstrate a failure of the peace movement, but rather the failure of democracy. We were dismissed as a focus group while thousands of bogus polls with dubious statistics came out each day before the war began..and continue today.
Millions of people around our nation have become engaged in active citizenship against the policies of pre-emptive war for resolving the threats to peace and security.
It is not time to gag that movement,
but to civilly build upon it.
Rather than withdrawing from collective action, it is a time to reinforce what we morally believe as American citizens. There are a lot of feelings we each have to individually work through before we decide how we will protest, however.
We each must learn and contemplate differences between our grief and our despair, between hope and hostility.
Civil disobedience is key to a peace movement and wanting for peace does not equate to desiring one hair on one of our serviceperson's heads to be harmed. The peace movement is stronger now..not weaker. Peace action has just begun."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--A DISCUSSION---- FOUR PEOPLE ON AN INTERNET BOARD--
PERSON 1- "[their protest is] annoying. ... in their persistence in hating Bush and anything associated with him..."
PERSON 2: "The time has come when we can no longer dismiss questions or concerns as merely Bush-Bashing.While that is true for some, it does not reflect the basis for many questions being asked. It is not as much as a minority as you would think. Many are reticent to voice their concerns since they know they will be branded as unpatriotic and not supporting of the troops. No one wants to be perceived as such during this difficult time. Emotion and psychology does play a great role in all of this. That is unavoidable. I have enough faith in my country that hard questions can be asked without destroying it.It is too bad that others feel that our country cannot withstand any scrutiny or discourse at this time."
PERSON 3- "This is NOT the time.
Please refer to following 2 posts:
A. True Patriots: As we all know, the war on Iraq is fully underway. The time for protests against action by the United States is past. The opinions of all Americans, both pro and con, have been heard by our elected representatives and they have made decisions with the full legal authority of the United States government.
This does not imply that there are not or will not be issues that can be debated after this conflict is over. Do weapons of mass destruction exist? How will we handle the problem of the Kurds? How will we rebuild Iraq? How will we set up self-government?
All of these questions will need serious discussion in the times ahead and the voices of Americans should be heard; AT THAT TIME.
However, NOW, voices of protest only give aid and comfort to our enemy. It encourages Iraq to fight on, in hopes that the protests will cause the Government of the United States to turn back from this course of action. This encouragement places our men and women in the service at risk. Every minute that an armed Iraqi fights longer because of the protests of Americans is a minute that they might take the lives of our service people.
For those who have consistently argued that to protest does not mean that someone is not a patriot, I say that you WERE correct but you are NOT now.
------------------
B.- The Necessary War - There are times politics needs to be put aside and this is why a liberal like me supports this war effort. I don't know how much proof of the evil of Saddam Hussein anyone needs but mine is quite satisfied. There seems little doubt he has chemical weapons he plans on using. This is not the sign of a leader who intended on cooperating with the UN. The distruction, or at the very least, the disclosure of all chemical weapons would have been one of the easier things for Hussein to have done with the UN inspectors but he chose otherwise.
There are substantial reports of Iraqis in Southern Iraq rising up against Hussein. That this has yet to happen in Bagdad should come as no surprise though. Hussein has led by terror. He has shown he has no problem with killing his own people so where he is still in power, albeit precarious, should serve as reason why the people of Bagdad haven't risen up against him. They need more, wouldn't you? To his credit Bush has stated that we are closer to the beginning of this war than the end. That's not surprising. Hussein has a substantial military force that needs defeating, not something that happens over night or in 5 days. History is littered with large standing armies being defeated by much smaller ones and the reason is always the same, underestimation and lack of respect for your opponent. I don't believe either of these things is happening now. I want this war to end quickly but properly."
MY OWN REPLY: "I think this is a time when it is most important to respectfully make your case.
We individual Americans are free to express what we morally believe and we each possess the opportunity to do so in a civilly disobedient manner.
The onset of war with Iraq did not demonstrate a failure of the peace movement, but rather the failure of democracy. We were dismissed as a focus group while thousands of bogus polls with dubious statistics came out each day before the war began..and continue today.
Millions of people around our nation have become engaged in active citizenship against the policies of pre-emptive war for resolving the threats to peace and security.
It is not time to gag that movement,
but to civilly build upon it.
Rather than withdrawing from collective action, it is a time to reinforce what we morally believe as American citizens. There are a lot of feelings we each have to individually work through before we decide how we will protest, however.
We each must learn and contemplate differences between our grief and our despair, between hope and hostility.
Civil disobedience is key to a peace movement and wanting for peace does not equate to desiring one hair on one of our serviceperson's heads to be harmed. The peace movement is stronger now..not weaker. Peace action has just begun."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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